tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post5289953181136240995..comments2023-07-02T22:13:53.050+12:00Comments on Theo Geek: Homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom of God?Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-4665114084329527142019-10-27T07:48:10.523+13:002019-10-27T07:48:10.523+13:00I wrote a response but it was too long to post, so...I wrote a response but it was too long to post, so I put it on my own blog and am posting this link to it:<br /><br />https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=4799978248443249850#editor/target=post;postID=1927008757397960252;onPublishedMenu=allposts;onClosedMenu=allposts;postNum=0;src=postname<br /><br />Joe Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269222695903340612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-65855763280955326702015-07-04T19:19:54.823+12:002015-07-04T19:19:54.823+12:00Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22...Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 teach that a man cannot lie (sexual act) with another man as he lies with a woman. The origin of the word arsenokoites means homosexual activity and homosexual. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prove very clearly that arsenos koiten means homosexual sex, because the Jews scribes translated words' arsenos koiten describe men who have sex with other men (homosexuality), which is a sin and against the will of God. Apostle Paul didn't make up the word arsenokoites, but it was already as the concept in the Old Testament, where it meant homosexuality. <br /><br />http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/arsenokoitesmeanshomosexuality.htmlman with desirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881690798999758579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-43959483587554779922012-08-12T01:39:17.383+12:002012-08-12T01:39:17.383+12:00I don't think that arsenokoitais or arsenokoit...I don't think that arsenokoitais or arsenokoites mean anything about homosexuality because from what I read in Leviticus, the law was only made for the Israelites during that time before Jesus established a new covenant. What Jesus established for us is that we love God with all our heart, soul and mind and love one another as we did ourselves. This fulfills all the laws described in the Old Testament. Must we follow all the laws and deny what Jesus had done for us? If we follow all the laws described in the Old Testament, then we don't need Jesus and God will hold us accountable for all the laws. Would you rather be stoned to death, hanged, for breaking the laws in the Old Testament?<br /><br />Finally, what I think arsenokoitais or arsenokoites means is that 'arsen' means 'man', 'o' is the adjective of 'the', and 'koitais' or 'koites' means 'beds' as a plural form 'many beds'. Then arsenokoitais or arsenokoites means 'male with many beds' or 'male with multiple bed-partners'; promiscuous man and Paul should use 'paid-erasste' for homosexuals during his time as during his time there were many man-boy sexual relationship and we call it pederasty in today's society.<br /><br />Sorry about renewing the topic again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-40128970274042756212012-01-23T18:03:47.636+13:002012-01-23T18:03:47.636+13:00and it would help if I posted the link http://mich...and it would help if I posted the link http://michaelcardensjottings.blogspot.com/2012/01/homophobia-and-politics-of-biblical.html<br /><br />Sorry :-(Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356422488538820280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-52788188932300309172012-01-23T18:02:33.402+13:002012-01-23T18:02:33.402+13:00I know it's about 4 years later but I thought ...I know it's about 4 years later but I thought you'd be interested to read my take on this issue, not least because I cite you a couple of times :-)Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356422488538820280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-64552285337243540952008-06-12T10:55:00.000+12:002008-06-12T10:55:00.000+12:00> You've made it sound as if that is> a lunatic-fr...> You've made it sound as if that is<BR/>> a lunatic-fringe position.<BR/><BR/>Well that is largely how I regard it. The arguments that are commonly made for it are ludicrous.<BR/><BR/>> Have you read Gagnon's book<BR/><BR/>No, although I've looked into it and he appears to be a hard-line anti-homosexuality writer who uses some totally ridiculous arguments. I think you severely misrepresent him as being reasonable.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01904922191977808104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-31476033560796259362008-03-13T12:47:00.000+13:002008-03-13T12:47:00.000+13:00From this article, p.g. 54 onwards:"The terms mala...From <A HREF="http://www.westernsem.edu/files/westernsem/gagnon_autm05_0.pdf" REL="nofollow">this article</A>, p.g. 54 onwards:<BR/><BR/>"The terms malakoi (literally, “soft men”) and arsenokoitai (literally, “men lying with a male”) in 1 Cor 6:9 also do not suggest any kind of restriction to exploitative practices. The sense of malakoi as “men who feminize themselves to attract male sex partners” is evident from: its place in the vice list amidst other participants in illicit sexual intercourse, its pairing with the immediately following word arsenokoitai, Philo of Alexandria’s use of cognate words, and instances where the parallel Latin word molles is used to refer to effeminate adult males who are biologically and/or psychologically disposed to desire penetration by men. The complaint about such figures in the ancient world generally, and certainly by Philo, centers around their attempted erasure of the masculine stamp given them by God/nature, not their exploitation of others, age difference, or acts of prostitution.126<BR/><BR/>The word arsenokoitai is a compound formed from the Greek words for “lying” (koite) and “male” (arsen) that appear in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Levitical prohibitions of men “lying with a male” (18:22; 20:13). The rabbis used the corresponding Hebrew abstract expression mishkav zakur, “lying of/with a male,” drawn from the Hebrew texts of Lev 18:22 and 20:13. This way of talking about male homosexuality is a distinctly Jewish and Christian formulation, undoubtedly used as a way of distinguishing their absolute opposition to homosexual practice, rooted in the Torah of Moses, from more accepting views in the Greco-Roman milieu. The appearance of arsenokoitai in 1 Tim 1:10 makes the link to the Mosaic law explicit, since the list of vices of which arsenokoitai is a part are said to be derived from “the law” (1:9)." ... continuesScott Mackayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251906149770959328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-43857861439299623362008-03-13T12:26:00.000+13:002008-03-13T12:26:00.000+13:00Andrew, Have you read Gagnon's book on homosexual ...Andrew, <BR/><BR/>Have you read Gagnon's book on homosexual practice? It's been recognised as a fairly landmark work even by pro-homosex and liberal scholars. <BR/><BR/>I think your post really doesn't do any justice to the evidence - I think you probably know that anyway. The truth is that there are scholars from a variety of theological camps, and even sexual orientations, who agree that the Bible as a whole, and Paul in particular, is against homosexual practice. You've made it sound as if that is a lunatic-fringe position.Scott Mackayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251906149770959328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-80195294821582632102008-02-28T07:24:00.000+13:002008-02-28T07:24:00.000+13:00You've expressed more eloquently than I the proble...You've expressed more eloquently than I the problems I have with 'arsenokoites was spawned from Leviticus' - as if a document can exist in a linguistic vacuum, and as if such methodology were ever a scholarly way to look at word meaning. I don't know whether you've looked into it, but it seems to me that 'paidophthoros' is a similar word used also by Jewish and early Christian authors, having apparently the same distribution (appears in Didache in almost identical context as 1 Cor) and is a somewhat better attested word, and these make me guess that the two were synonymous. Though truth be told this is a debate I am so tired of having.<BR/><BR/>I found your blog through ongoing conversations with a friend, when the topic touched on penal substitution (and the lack thereof). I've had enough fodder for my thoughts wandering around your archives.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14005260344579507716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-88770530254358062752008-02-27T13:09:00.000+13:002008-02-27T13:09:00.000+13:00Building a bit on what Nathan says...A third optio...Building a bit on what Nathan says...<BR/><BR/>A third option is that the word clearly does refer to sexual relations between men. But the gentile context of those relations is the important piece here and not just the sex per se. Just as there are quite repulsive sex acts between men and women, the context is in terms of rather repulsive and domineering sex act between men. No where in the bible do we hear of condemnation of supportive and mutually uplifting relationships between people of the same gender as being sinful. So the mistake is to focus on the sex too much.<BR/><BR/>But that is part of Christianity's problem. We tend to focus on the dirtiness of sex so much that we translate verses like these in kind.Drew Tatuskohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12344192935890766744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7760102.post-28400424155843626932008-02-27T12:40:00.000+13:002008-02-27T12:40:00.000+13:00Yeah, I have often considered such logic as compar...Yeah, I have often considered such logic as comparing Greek words across the bible to be ridiculously bad logic. Have they never heard of consistent error?<BR/><BR/>So you're saying that if it's anything close to condemning homosexuality, it's condemning homosexual rape.<BR/>In which case, it does have a little similarity to homosexuality, but it's completely different to homosexual orientation, or even consensual homosexual behavior, which the verse is used to condemn.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01168391817929027105noreply@blogger.com